Zibbet Review: Owner Andrew Gray Characterizes Customers on Forums as "Trolls" while Publicly Declaring He Supports All Sellers

Zibbet owner Andrew Gray joined in a private, invitation only group to encourage the shunning and manipulation of forum threads started by those with questions about the site.  Or in this case a thread that thanked folks for asking those hard questions.  The "trolls" in other words.

Publicly, of course, he claimed he and CEO Jonathan Peacock welcomed robust discussion.  But manipulation of the forum to suppress that kind of discussion by not responding to it and to instead bump "positive" threads, is encouraged by him.  Don't have your magnifying glass?  Here's what he says:
"This is super good advice and will definitely help Zibbet to stay strong.  "Don't feed the trolls"  This is fabulous & profound and the same time. :) A."

And a member responds, "Andrew this group has done an amazing job starting last night keeping the positive threads up and not responding to the obvious baiting.  They did a great job for this community." (Baiting being a thread thanking people for asking hard questions).

To which, Andrew Gray says, "Absolutely!  Good work folks.  the future for the Zibbet community is unquestionably productive, helpful, professional and fun.  Death to petty bickering! A."

Now this is a rare find, this group's posts were super secret so the rest of us only surmised it was being done based on observation of its members and the owner.   It was not private for a while today and these posts were public for all to see.  I showed it on twitter, and whoops!  It suddenly disappeared.

So while Andrew Gray is plotting privately with SOME of his customers to shut up OTHER customers, he's posting this publicly.

3. Giving oxygen to the "us vs them" rhetoric will not be tolerated (by anyone)
4. There is no such thing as favourites with admin. This notion is plain ridiculous.

from his scolding "It's Real Simple" announcement. http://community.zibbet.com/forum/topics/it-s-real-simple

The Zibbet owner mocks the perception held by many of his customers that there is a concerted effort that includes him to divide and conquer the forums to suppress questions everyone has a right to have answered, and systematically mutes without warning to ensure it when he and his "favourites" in his secret hidey hole haven't done a good enough job of it.

And people ask me why I want my money back?  Besides he and Jonathan Peacock saying they were submitting my items to 20 million buyers on The Find.com, when they weren't?   And concealed that info til outed?  $237.  I want it back.  These are not people I want to do business with.

Jonathan Peacock and Andrew Gray of Zibbet? Give me my money back for not providing service I paid for!

I've asked you multiple times privately and publicly and in your inimitable public relations style, have been ignored.  Zibbet owners Jonathan Peacock and Andrew Gray, I want my money back for the services you advertised to sell me on Zibbet, but knowingly did not provide me.

I want all $237 of it.  Your "Sell" page on Zibbet claimed that you were automatically submitting our items to 20 million buyers on The Find.com.  And weren't.  And you knew you weren't while you were using that as a seller point.  And didn't admit it until confronted publicly on your forums. 

You admit that you are not promoting our shops, a service that convinced many of us to invest in yearly shop memberships, yet you keep the money without providing that service.  Not to mention the "tease" that you were relaunching a stable, professional looking website in "early 2014".

I want my money back.  I am entitled to it. 

Jonathan Peacock and Andrew Gray's Advertising Services NOT provided.

It amazes me that you allow other Zibbet members to do your public relations for you.

Recently on twitter, several of these poor souls were arguing the legality of your not providing the services you advertise but knowingly were not delivering.  Like it was "free carwash with fill up of gas" when the carwash was broken.  These poor souls actually thought they were helping you by claiming that that kind of bait and switch was comparable to what you have done.

Of course, it's more like a pizza company paying a promotions company to do a variety of promos, including putting door hangers on 2 thousand houses and discovering that the 2 thousand hang tags were discarded because the owner's truck broke.  And the promotions company still taking orders for hang tags from other shopkeepers.

And the promotions company, when finally outed, saying, yeah, we weren't, our truck broke, sorry you THINK you were mislead into thinking we were doing that.  Those hang tags aren't very effective anyway.  We did do some of the other things we promised you.

And leaving it at that.  There are others who love Zibbet, some with a mysterious passion that eludes me.  And that's fine.  If they are happy, that's their business.  But I expected EVERYTHING I was promised when I paid for my 3 shops, and more importantly, spent precious time on!  And since you knowingly DIDN'T provide all the services you sold me I want a refund.  That's $237 and it's the upright thing to do.  You can refund me via paypal.

Hopefully THAT kind of professional answer will be what I get, not some poor souls telling me that I "look bad" for asking for what I paid for.  And thinking that's great public relations for you.

Zibbet advertises yearly rate for $10 less than they actually charge

Zibbet's newsletter today advertises it's yearly membership for $79.  When you click to buy, it's $89.

And oversight?  Or a pattern of advertising for premium sellers with false information? 

We outed Zibbet owners Mr. Jonathan Peacock and Rev. Andrew Gray for advertising they were automatically submitting our items to 20 million buyers on The Find.com, when they weren't.  And they finally admitted it.

Now they send out newsletters advertising one price, and charging another. 

I'm not sure which is worse, willfully creating a newsletter with false advertising or being so careless about a business that over 9,000 sellers are depending on to be professional in every way.  And in the forums, some poor souls are wracking their brains on how to bring BUYERS to the site.  Well, we were promised 20 million buyers would see our items.  Instead of having his sellers spending time frantically pinning each other's items, why don't owners Jonathan Peacock and Andrew Gray  honor their advertising and submit our items to the place where actual buyers come from?  Or else refund the fees of those of us who bought premium accounts and are upset that those buyers are not being shown our items as promised?  I want my $237 back. 

Just do the right thing, Zibbet owners, Mr. Peacock and Reverend Gray.

How I will support Zibbet SHOPS, but not the owners

We'd be happy if we got our $$ back!

 I love 99% of the shopkeepers on Zibbet.  We sellers all are in the same boat.  If Zibbet works for you, then that's great!  I just don't want any part of it anymore.  I want my money back from the owners, Jonathan Peacock and Andrew Gray.

And as soon as I get my refund that I'm owed, I'm putting my money where my mouth is!  I will take the entire $79 I paid for my THIRD shop and spend it at Zibbet shops!

I want my money back.  I've told you some of why already, in previous posts, basically because I'm not getting what I paid for, they admit it, and refuse to refund me! 

And I tried asking Zibbet privately and got ignored, so had to turn to social media.  And will continue to until either I get my refund or the last of my paid for shop's year is up.  I wish I had a choice but I don't.  I just am not the kind of person to be taken advantage of and take it and like it.  So keep tuned!  As soon as I get my money I'll be shopping!  What do you have????

Zibbet Screenshots and Links to Posts with important information that's hard to find

A lot to think about...

Thanks to everyone interested in my personal opinions about my experience on Zibbet, I appreciate all the mail!  To save time, here's the most asked for links. 

The C3 Church/ controversial political tweets thread is here:  http://community.zibbet.com/forum/topics/zibbet-and-the-c3-city-harvest-church

For those asking for the subsequent "If Zibbet is not to your liking, find a site that is/if you leave you are lazy" thread,  the one that caused the division into "us" vs. "them" atmosphere, it either was edited, removed or I just can't put my hands on it.  Sorry.  If someone finds it, let me know the link?

I also can't post the photos showing the CEO staff on their vacation/retreat in early December in an expensive highrise, playing video games and planning the relaunch with post it notes.  I don't own those photos, so can't repost them here.  But here's the link: http://icont.ac/26yhN. 

For those of you asking for links to the relevant facts about the promised relaunch and the site crashing issues, see CEO Jonathan Peacock's response here. Please note that weeks before, they had announced the relaunch would occur in early 2014, with an announcement of the actual date to be given in January 2014. Not a peep about issues with it, delays, etc., until someone asked in the forums.

  http://community.zibbet.com/forum/topics/rebuild-rollout-timing-update?id=3935368%3ATopic%3A925293&page=5#comments

For those asking about my follow up question, here is that link: http://community.zibbet.com/forum/topics/what-few-new-features-are-in-the-rollout

As you can see, no horrible, awful, so-bad-we-have-to-suspend-her things were said by me. A polite and straightforward question about a site I paid for 3 shops for.   As were all of my posts on Zibbet. 

My Otto says, "This is no laughing matter!  $237 is a lot of dog bones!

For those asking to see the screen shot of my first communication from Zibbet about my behavior in the forums, here's my first warning, notice, and last. 

And for those wanting a screen shot of the Sell page on Zibbet advertising as a selling feature that they are listing our items on TheFind.com, here's that, it was removed after the CEO admitted they weren't submitting them in response to a question in the forums.  That question has been closed as well. 

Here's that closed Q and A.  http://community.zibbet.com/forum/topics/i-can-t-find-anything-from-my-shop-on-the-find.  Notice the CEO says he's sorry if anyone "feels" they were mislead, not that we WERE mislead.  So, not a real apology, not when it has an "if" in it and the blames us for our feelings about not being provided the service, rather than Zibbet who promised to do it and didn't.  "I am sorry you were mislead" is a real apology.  And that's what we did not get.

And finally, any other screenshots you may need, just let me know. I, too, would love nothing better than to put Zibbet behind me, but until I get a refund for services not rendered for my three shops...or until the year I paid for them is over... I have a dog in the race. :( Please do not think that because I posted the most often requested screen shots here that I am unwelcoming conversation. If you don't know where to find me, people have been leaving a comment asking for my email, that works! Robin

What kind of selling site is Zibbet, anyway, Jonathan Peacock and Andrew Gray?

Let's TALK about Zibbet!

One of the reasons a huge group of us chose to join Zibbet en masse last fall was that they advertised that they automatically submitted our items to 20 million buyers via The Find.com.  A quick search the other day revealed that this advertised service was NOT being rendered.  They'd been using it as a major selling point on their "Sell" page even after owners Jonathan Peacock and Rev. Andrew Gray made the decision not to submit to the Find due to Zibbet site issues. And when confronted about that fact in their forums, the owner admitted it. Finally.

I want my money back!

I contacted Zibbet who ignored me, then  paypal, who were most sympathetic, but I learned that Paypal protection never covers services promised but not rendered even if a claim is made immediately, and that I could probably get a refund through a chargeback by my bank.  I am considering that.

I've also gotten emails from other unhappy sellers telling me about class action suits, official departments in Australia, attorneys general, lawyers and agencies here and abroad, enough to make my head spin!  Getting my $237 back could be a full time job!

Less than two months ago, I was promoting Zibbet everywhere!   Now I was thinking about making phone calls to Australia????   What?  How had it come to this?

Did so many of those of us who joined last fall just ASSUME Zibbet owners Andrew Gray and Jonathan Peacock were eager to build a huge competitive destination site with internal traffic like we did?  Were we wrong?  It's what we wanted, but did they?

Perhaps we were like the dads on the hockey team who had a kid with a spark of talent.  Dad had dreams of the NHL the kid didn't have.  Hockey camps, special foods, private instruction, weight training, ballet lessons, intensive coaching, all to turn a kid into a pro when all the kid really wanted was to have fun, hang with friends, and have something interesting to do on the weekends instead of watch t.v..

Oh, this is sad!

Maybe that's all Zibbet wanted.  And we were the hockey dads. We assumed the owners Andrew and Jonathan wanted for Zibbet what we did.

We expected more, and especially to be dealt with in a professional manner...which includes refunding unhappy customers!

From a moral perspective, it is owed us.  It's what the big boys, Etsy and Ebay, expect us individual sellers to do with our own customers even if we aren't to blame for a customer not getting what they paid for.  And we do it because it's right, it's the honest and moral thing to do.  Yes, it's the right thing to do, ethically.

But you know, from a BUSINESS perspective, it's the right thing to do, too.  It's Customer Service 101, that you work with disgruntled customers, you don't throw gasoline on a fire!  You contact them personally, try to soothe and smooth, and yes, refund if necessary.  Giving back the money to disgruntled customers asking for a refund for services promised but not rendered should be a no-brainer.

But no. 

 Bottom line, Jonathan Peacock and Rev. Andrew Gray sold me a service they weren't providing and took my money and won't give it back.  And that's why it's hard to just let it go.  Like I really, really, really would love to.  The only thread holding me to the site is my $237.  And I can sure use that money.  I could list 1,100 more items at Etsy!  And never think about Zibbet again.  Wouldn't that be loverly?  More info about ZIBBET

Zibbet threatens to close shops because of forum posts, Zibbet Review, Zibbet Sales

Boy would I love to put Zibbet behind me.  But I'm in it with 3 paid shops so until there year is over, I have a dog in the race. 

Do you think if you are suspended from the Zibbet forums, and threats are made to close your paid-up shops, that you ought to be told why? 

I haven't been, although the Zibbet owners insinuate I have, and have been talking about me quite a bit, by name, in the Zibbet forums, hinting not so subtly that I did something just awful!  But first, they had to get their stories straight about whether they suspended me or not.  They had to admit they actually did ... because I published a screen shot of it!  Til then, they insisted I hadn't been.

So when I was suspended with NO WARNING, owner Jonathan said I wasn't suspended, that he deleted my account.

Hi Robin,

To clarify, you weren't suspended from the community - you left. You are receiving this email, because after we saw that you left, we deleted your community account. We do this for all people that choose to leave.

To be honest, I'm not sure where all this hate is coming from. We are a very small team, trying our best to build a large company that helps true and independent creatives sell their products online. That's it.

Jonathan.

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After I replied, and published my screen shot showing Zibbet had suspended me, he posted THIS in their forums.  The story changed totally. 
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Peacock (Zibbet's CEO) yesterday

Hi all,

To clarify, Any Old Time left the community on her own accord. Her community account was then suspended, as we do with all members who decide to leave the community, hence why she wasn't able to sign in and received that notice. We "suspend" them instead of completely deleting them so that their comments are retained in the forums.

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The "routine" of deleting all accounts who leave is interesting, since at least one of those suspended the same day as I had left weeks before, and wasn't suspended til after I told Jonathan I knew people who had left and weren't suspended.  Coincidentally, this same person tweeted about Zibbet that day, not happy! 

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He then publicly announced in his forums, that I was not allowed back.  If I wanted.

And to date, I have received zero notice of why I am muted on the Zibbet forums, while a sudden list appears insinuation that I (and the others they suspended the same day) received warnings, did something just awful, and that paid-for shops could be shut down.  Andrew has stated there is a reason.  But no reason has ever been shared with me or the others to my knowledge. Further discussing my suspension publicly on the Zibbet forums, he says I broke the rules on the community guidelines.  But again, he told me I wasn't suspended in my email!

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Jonathan Peacock:

"A handful of members were suspended from the community in the last 24 hours and others have left on their own accord. In general, members will be suspended when they wilfully choose to ignore the stated Community Guidelines.

Suspending members is not a "new" thing for Zibbet. Unfortunately many members have had to be removed over the years and we will continue to do so...."

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He also wrote:  "...There are cases where we'll remove members without warning. This is generally when they are new and in serious breach of the guidelines. In the past, everyone that we've removed because of this has been a 'sock puppet' account anyway. However, there have been cases where we've had to remove members that were acting in blatant disregard for the guidelines. This is rare and would have to be quite serious (and obvious to everyone)..."

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Not a sock puppet, so I guess I fall into the "blatant disregard" section.  Which is confusing, since I never heard I disregarded anything.  And in this public discussion about me, where I couldn't defend myself, many members were saying I had only asked questions...and in a polite way.  Not obvious to "everyone".  Remember, he told me the day before that I wasn't suspended.  But changed his story.

And then his partner chimed in:

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Permalink Reply by Andrew (Zibbet's co-founder) 19 hours ago

Thank you Jonathan for adding further clarity to this discussion, and I agree in the most part it has been very respectful, so thank you to everyone who has participated in that manner.
I want to add a couple of thoughts that I think are important.
It seems clear to me that the main theme of concern here is people wondering if there is a chance of somehow being suspended for doing something quite innocuous.
I want to emphatically ensure everyone that there is absolutely no chance of that happening. There IS a graduation of possible consequences which I will mention below. It's important to note that not every instance suits a chronological, linear and complete activation of each level of consequence. We have no choice but to treat each breech situation on its own merits.
And as Jonathan has clearly stated, we are always wanting to find reasons for people to stay with Zibbet, not the opposite.

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet but is extremely important in the context of this thread is:
We have so far, all been presuming upon a hypothetical example of breech whereby the said breech is both MINOR and ACCIDENTAL. This probably will be the case in most instances, and as such, will likely attract a minor warning or at worst a comment may be deleted.
However, we must keep in mind that there could be, and indeed in the past, there has been, instances of MAJOR and DELIBERATE breeches of guidelines. These are moments where people know exactly what they are doing and they don't care what the consequences may be. They are simply aiming to bring harm to Zibbet and its users.
I want to urge everyone at this time to recognise that just because a person claims to have done hardly anything wrong does not mean it's actually the case. Also, just because a person begins their Zibbet journey in a helpful and supporting way, does not necessarily mean that they will continue in that manner.

In summary, we will be sure on every occasion to give generous grace to people in the community when breeches occur, especially when they are minor and not intended for harm. The facts tell the story of this always being the case. So please, everyone try to relax and remember what I've said before "our guidelines hold no fear for people who are trying to do the right thing and show respect for others"
If you're unfamiliar with the guidelines, take some time to revisit with them.

Andrew

Examples of possible, graduated consequences in our community:

1. Warning within a thread
2. Deleting comments
3. Closing a thread
4. Warning a user
5. Suspending a user from community
6. Removal from community and marketplace

_________________________________________________________________________________

 

REMOVAL FROM COMMUNITY AND MARKETPLACE!!!!

Sounds like I got all kinds of warnings, huh?  Nope!  The ONLY "consequence" I had was he closed threads of mine with legitimate business questions asked in a polite manner.  Like the one where I asked a follow question up to the quickly closed thread asking about the delay in the relaunch, for instance. QUICKLY shut that one down.   No warning in a thread.  No deleting of comments.  No warning a user.  And of course, I WAS suspended, even thought Jonathan said I wasn't.  And then I was.  And now, the threat of removal of my PAID FOR SHOPS!  $237 dollars worth.  Same with the others they suspended, again, one who had left weeks before!

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And then continued to publicly talk ABOUT ME PERSONALLY ON HIS FORUMS, and say he had there WAS a valid reason for it!  I have no idea what "valid reason" means.  I have never, to my knowledge, violated their community guidelines.  But he's telling the rest of the world that I did something terribly, terribly wrong, so wrong, they had to suspend me with no notice. (But recall, they first denied they suspended me!)

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Permalink Reply by Andrew (Zibbet's co-founder) 18 hours ago

Hello Sister Moon,

Thanks for your question, and also your commitment to self-management in forums. It's a great way to go.
In short, it's not appropriate for us to go into details about why a person gets suspended from the community. I realise that some will say, but you guys said publicly "AOT will not be allowed to return to the forum"
This is true, and in hindsight, it may have been better to not use the name. Essentially the intent of that comment was to say that a user (any user) who is suspended cannot return to the community.
And again, as stated clearly in my comments on the previous page, if a person is suspended from the community, there IS a valid reason for it.

Also, it would be worthwhile taking another look at my second last paragraph on the previous page to help your understanding in this situation.

Thanks

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So he blithely maligns the reputation of "a handful" (I don't know how many on the purge, but all that I know were the ones asking hard questions on the forums), claims we were warned when we weren't, makes up new guidelines to include closing your paid-up shops, and thinks it will HELP, not HURT his site! 
 

I think I am owed an explanation, don't you?   The truth is, I did nothing awful.  I asked hard questions, like exactly what features will and will not be included in the re-launch.  That's stirring the pot to many of his fans.  And getting ticked off when I was suspended with no cause and announcing that on public media?  That's the real sin.  Zibbet is the side job of both of the owners, down on the list of daily priorities.  If I knew that neither of them could possibly devote full time hours to it, I would have never invested in it.  A start up taking money from others should have owners working 18 hours a day on it, not what's left after supper and putting the kids to bed.

It will be interesting to see if THIS post on my personal blog gets my shops removed.  Which would be A-Okay with me if they want to give me my $237 back!  The sales are dismal, anyway.  More about Zibbet